PUBLIC HEARING PRELIMINARY BUDGET
MINUTES
PRESENT: MICHAEL
JOSEPH CAPASSO, COUNCILMAN
ERNEST KASSAY, COUNCILMAN
GINNY NACERINO, DEPUTY SUPERVISOR
ANTOINETTE KOPECK, TOWN CLERK
PATRICIA BROOKS, COMPTROLLER
TIMOTHY CURTISS, TOWN COUNSEL
Salute to the Flag.
Supervisor
Mr. Griffin stated thank you all for coming out this evening. At this time, before we start the meeting the Fire Marshall has requested a couple of minutes so he can make a quick announcement.
Mr. David Raines, Code Enforcement Officer stated I want to make sure you know that the fire exits are in the front, the rear and the sides of the building. If the fire alarm sounds please exit the building at the designated exits. Please don’t block the aisles and the doorways. There is no smoking in the building. If you have any concerns or any special needs please let us know. The restrooms are located off the lobby. If there are any medical issues please bring it to my attention or the Deputy in the room.
Mr. Griffin asked Mr. Tim Curtiss to read the Public Notice:
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Mr. Griffin stated we will have the Public Hearing tonight for the 2009 Preliminary Budget. I would ask that if anyone wishes to speak or make a comment to raise your hand and come up to the microphone. Questions should be related to the budget. There have been a lot of things said and things published in the newspapers and on the blogs that should have never happened. As far as I’m concerned we are not going to take any personal comments or questions they will be related to the budget only. If you do not adhere to those rules, I will ask you to step away from the podium.
Mrs. Nacerino stated excuse me I would like to make a comment before you begin the Public Hearing.
Good Evening Ladies and Gentlemen:
It is so good to see so many of our residents here tonight. The budget meeting is an important one and I’m happy to see so many of you actively participating in a Democratic process. At the same time, I would be remiss if I did not say how disappointed I am. I am disappointed in the antics that I have witnessed this past week and the politics that have unfortunately seeped its way into our Town Government. We can certainly disagree and we should definitely voice our opinions and our concerns but there is no role in dirty politics and personal attacks in our process. I am very disheartened by what I have witnessed this past week. With that being said let us move forward and work together for the good of our Town. I will not let antics stand in the way of good government and I hope you feel the same. It is no secret that we are facing tough economic times. At every level of government we are feeling the implications of the Wall Street crisis that has taken our stability and our economy. The main stays of Wall Street, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were bailed out by our fellow government just a few weeks ago. These are uncharted waters and very somber times. Here in Patterson we have friends and neighbors who are struggling to hold onto their homes and stay warm this winter. This is a reality which we are living. Like so many of you, I have watched my 40lK plummet. I have struggled with out-of-control gas prices and I have been frightened by the unstable and unpredictable economy. As a Town and as an Elected Official our primary responsibility is to the people. It is in that rein that I sit here before you tonight. I am here to listen to your concerns, hear your input and work to pass a responsible budget that is mindful of the economic landscape around us. Thus far, the Board has received Tentative Budgets and we have submitted proposed changes. Tonight we are here to hear input from the people so that we can put forth the best possible budget for this Town. Keep in mind this is a tough year. I feel strongly that it is my responsibility as your Representative to look at each item in this budget with an eye toward cutting costs and saving dollars. Streamline expenditures is an absolute must as we continue to save even more State mandates and soaring medical municipal expenses. With speaking with my Constituents the outcry is always the same. Taxes are pricing us out of Patterson and that is something I do not want to happen to any of us.
In the revised Budget that was put forth, our personnel count has been tentatively reduced by eliminating certain positions. We are looking at everything. Scrutinizing expenses from working logistically to avoid duplication of services and reduce the layers of government. The Preliminary Budget put forth also included outsourcing and/or per diem, which has proved to be an efficient and effective way to do business in our neighboring communities and school district. Shortly after the Preliminary Budget was posted I received many calls and have been listening to your thoughts and concerns with an open mind and an objective perspective. My response to each of you has been the same. As your Elected Official I have an obligation to all the residents of this Town. Please know that your opinions are the utmost importance to me and everything is on the table and everything is up for consideration. This is an important forum that will enable this Board to hear directly from you, the people of Patterson, so we can work together to do what is right for this Town. Thank you.
Mr. O’Connor stated I did have some suggestions for the Preliminary Budget but they did not wind up in it so I would like to make a few motions to change them.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
I will be making a motion at the right time to change the Personnel Services of lines to the Town Board from $78,728.00 to $72,000.00.
I would make a motion to change the in lieu-of line to the Town Board from $30,400.00 to $12,000.00.
I would make a motion to change the in lieu-of to all other lines from $7,600.00 to $6,000.00.
I would make a motion to do away with $8,000.00 for the per-diem for the Environmental Conservation Inspector.
I would make a motion for employees to contribute to the medical plan.
Those are what I would propose for reductions. The total would amount to $57,578.00.
There are some restorations I will be voting for. The shared Personnel Services of $2,132.00 moved from the Tentative Budget, I will make a motion to restore it.
The shared Personnel Services for $11,576.00, which was removed from the Tentative Budget, I will make a motion to restore that.
We used to have $1,000.00 for the Veterans. They rarely call for it but I think it would be good to restore it.
I will make a motion to restore the full-time position of the Town Planner in the amount of $78,954.00. Other Town’s hire part-time Planners and they pay them that much. I think we should change the way we pay him so that more of his salary can be paid by various contractors and developers that he approves. Our Planner happens to be off the Civil Service list. It is very difficult to eliminate a line or title and hire someone else to do the same job without running into Civil Service problems. I know if I was him I would be contacting a lawyer the next day.
I would restore the Environmental Conservation Officer for $12,000.00.
I will make a motion to restore $5,500.00 to the Town Supervisor. It would still make his salary less than the average of the other Town’s around here.
Mr. Griffin stated Mr. Kozlowski you had asked to address the Town Board.
Mr. Ted Kozlowski stated until
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
eighteen and hopefully longer than that, I have been paid
not from your tax dollars but from wetland fees that have been generated through
the wetland program. For the year 2008
my base salary is $11,786.00. That
amounts to about $36.71 per hour. In the
Town of
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
projects that I was personally involved with as ECI involving wetlands permits and anything to do with our environment. The first one is the A&P Shopping Center; Block Buster; Dollar Tree; Subway; Computer Store; Allied Pollution Control; On The Run Mobile; Clancy Self Storage which was an existing business that has expanded; North East Equine Center; Chair and Landscape Design; Matthew Fence; Duke Construction; Kent Plumbing Supply; Carriage House Restaurant which is about to open; Frazier Fence; Steven D’Ottavio True Warehouses; The Plaza Senior Living; North East Mason Supply; White Birch Realty; Patterson Business State Business Park; Eastern Jungle Gym; Eurostyle Marble and Mr. Capasso’s very own North Ridge Stable. Whatever happens this evening I’m not begging for my job. It hasn’t been an easy job. I’m your neighbor, I’ve coached your kids, I’m staying and it’s been a pleasure and an honor to serve you. Whatever happens, happens. Thank you. Goodnight.
Mr. Bruce Majors stated I am a resident of the Town of
Mr. Majors continued with his second item the Town Board
salary and compensation. You should be
aware I provided to the Board a limited analysis of salary and in-lieu of
compensation covering this Town Board with the rest of the Town’s in this
County. Salaries for a Councilperson
without in-lieu of medical are higher than any other Town and substantially
higher when you include the in-lieu of medical. For example; Preliminary Budget of $27,282.00
the next highest Town of
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Town. This savings alone would cover eleven months salary for the Town Planner while the Town Board awaits a proper examination of the facts.
Ms. Dorothy Brennan stated I come here as a fairly new
person to this area. I did live in the
Mr. John Byron stated I have been a Patterson resident for many years. I am also a small business owner in Patterson. Who here recalls a time when folks got along without something that cost too much. Given the current state of the economy globally and locally and the current level of property taxes inflicted upon us by the school district, the County and our own Town if you never heard that statement about getting along without something before it would seem like common sense now. The current Town Board and Supervisor are presenting a proposed budget that seems to suggest pruning in the fiscal forest when you look at each action separately. When viewed as a whole it seems more like let’s cut down trees on the left side of the forest because there are too many branches on the right side. Actions when reviewed as a whole are entirely without logic or merit.
When viewed by the public the proposed budget is driven more
by political expedience rather than fiscal soundness. The entire Board has been elected to shepherd
this Town from different courses at different times. Tonight’s need should focus only on the
budget, nothing else. Petty political
consideration should be laid aside for the good of the Town and the residents. Does this mean politics do not enter into the
picture, of course not. To take political
actions in the name of fiscal responsibility seems remarkably heavy handed and
appears to suggest that the local folk who elected the Board are just to plain
ignorant to figure out what is going on.
For example, let’s take the Town Planner’s position. No one on this Town Board has unequivocally
said that doing away with this position will save the Town money overall. If it costs more to replicate the work
presently being done the Town will still have saved the cost of the Town
Planner except it will cost the Town more overall. Also, given the sensitivity of our Town’s
environment and the quality of life we all paid so dearly to have for future
generations, does this Board honestly believe that a Conservation Officer’s
position is no longer needed or was that just an oversight. The Town Supervisor who was elected to the
position is not elected as the Town Financial Officer and Comptroller but
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
use by our local government for the good of all taxpayers. Let’s act as if the local people were our share holders in the Patterson Corporation and not act as if Patterson was being run by the Board of AIG. I would suggest that prudent planning would dictate that each department in Patterson be mandated by this Board to demand a ten to twenty budget cut across the Board with no exception. As in any business this makes financial sense. Unlike our Federal Government we can’t just print money we can only raise taxes. The Board needs to make financially hard choices for all and not politically driven ones for some. I would like to thank each and every one of you for deciding to make your community a better place for all.
Mr. Rich Williams, Town Planner stated Good Evening Mr. Supervisor, Town Board Members and Members of the Public. I would like to thank every one who came out to support myself and Ted Kozlowski. This is truly amazing to me because there are more people here tonight for this Budget meeting then there were for the Patterson Crossing meeting. I have been in this position now for ten years. To hold this position I tested and scored higher then three other Planners seeking the position. I hold a National Certification in Erosion Control and have attended numerous classes on Stormwater, MS4 Program and Watershed Hydrology. Because of my experience I have been invited to sit on two separate Task Forces for the MS4 Program sponsored by the Department of Environmental Conservation and the Department of State. During my tenure with the Town I have prepared the Town’s Comprehensive Plan and I did so at a fraction of the cost that it would have cost this Town to pay a consultant. I also (inaudible) Patterson
Croton Plan (inaudible) which the Town (inaudible) water quality within the watershed. Out of five Towns who prepared Croton plans, our Town was the only one that actually did a technical analysis of what the (inaudible) would be so that we could be prepared in the future for the reductions that we were going to have to achieve. I’ve worked with the Town time and time again on writing chapters of the Code more times then I can list here tonight. A lot has been made recently on whether I’m pro-development or against development. I am neither. I am development neutral. I am given a rule book by this Town and I follow that rule book. I assist and I am given direction by the Town Board, Planning Board and the Zoning Board of Appeals who set various policy decisions. Having said that, when I see a good opportunity I do bring it to the attention of the Town. Fox example; relocating Clancy, moving the storage to Route 22 was a concept that I originally brought to the Town Board.
This allowed this Town to keep jobs within the community,
increase our commercial tax base and allowed the Town to build a
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
East of
buy. With the
elimination of my position, who will do this work. More importantly was any thought given to
what it would cost. We are at the
beginning of a study that would give us better information on the cost of the
MS4 Program. It is an effort that I have
been instrumental to spear head. It is a
study that is fully funded by a grant that I submitted for this Town and for
the County and we received it. That study
is an intrical component of a Stormwater Retrofit Program that must be submitted
to the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation by December
2009. If the Town does not go forward
with this grant then the Retrofit must be submitted to the Department of
Environmental Conservation within five months of today. At the end of 2007 and
through 2008 we made (inaudible) Stormwater Management practices as a first
step in addressing water quality for
Pat Ploeger stated one year ago I ran for a seat on this Board and in preparation for that and since then because of my interest in what is going on this Town I have been attending Board meetings. As I was running, someone mentioned to me, you are really going to get a nice bonus when you get this job. I said what do you mean. She stated the salaries are about $25,000.00 and then you get this extra $7,000.00 for not taking medical insurance. The idea that a Public Servant is paid that much for a part-time job who has to show up for two Town Board meetings a month…. These people are part-time with no defined benefits or hours they are being given a bonus for not taking medical benefits which they shouldn’t be taking anyway. Some of them we are paying them medical benefits now with taxpayer dollars. They will also be getting this benefit for as long as the live. After they retire or after they lose an election. I would propose that this Board because it is concerned about the welfare of this Town completely eliminate the medical in-lieu of. I would also suggest that they consider, if not, going back a couple of percents. The other issue I would like to address and I will preface this by saying nobody appreciates what you guys do in the winter. I brag to people down in Westchester when they are having problems getting to and from their office that I never have a problem getting out myself; so thank you. I understand having looked at this memo of agreement that Mr. Kassay and Mrs. Nacerino signed that there is a proposition not reflected in the budget for time and a half for all hours worked even if there is one hour of overtime. I have been a labor negotiator employed by the Hudson Valley Mechanical Association for twenty years.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Prior to that another ten years I have been signatory to contracts with the Engineers, iron workers, laborers and teamster and I have never seen a clause like this and I’m really concerned that perhaps the people who negotiated didn’t understand what they were doing. I made an analogy earlier today, you look in the mirror and you say you could stand to lose twenty pounds, so what do you do, you reduce your calories, your expenditures (inaudible). I would suggest that you look carefully at the budget and especially at the Board’s own salaries and obscene in-lieu of and rectify that.
Mr. Mike Semo stated most recently I have received from
Marsha of Anna’s Limousine a series of blogs and I just want to personally
thank her because it will educate me.
One of those blogs said that I was the leader of the pack for this
budget. Just to let you know, I saw the
Preliminary Budget for the first time last Wednesday night. I spent this week looking at this
budget. Had I have been the leader of
these “evil doers” so to speak as stated in the blog, I would have cut much
deeper. The reason I would have cut is
because Patterson is slowly hemorrhaging on the taxes that are being paid. Here are two quick examples. In-lieu of medical should be looked at to be
dropped. I looked at another section
within the budget and I see $24,000.00 in addition to the Assessor’s salary
going out to be paid to Bill Ford from Southeast. Let’s get back closer to the budget and I
think Rich is the guy that is most probably under the gun here. The removal of a Planner at $78,000.00 is a
very strong move that has to be considered by this Board. I think it’s the right move. I think it is the right move for a lot of
reasons and I’ll give you one. We have a
Court House going in and we have expended close to $600,000.00 to date. That is a lot of money. We don’t have a site plan. With that $600,000.00 we threatened the owner
of the parcels that are in the rear and three houses that we were going to shut
them down by eminent domain. I haven’t
heard that since the last time I was in the legislature back in the 1990’s when
a friend of ours looked to dump in the Town of
Mr. Griffin stated Mr. Semo there is so much misinformation in that statement I hardly know where to start.
Mr. Semo stated I’m willing to listen to that; I have listened to enough lies up till now.
Mr. Griffin stated first of all if you would like to see the site plans stop by my office.
Mr. Semo stated why weren’t they available at the last meeting. Who approved the site plan. Let’s get it straight Mike, you don’t have a site plan you have a proposal.
Audience members stated this is a budget meeting and asked Mr. Semo to sit down.
Mr. Griffin stated as far as the eminent domain goes the
properties were owned by a bank in
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Ms. Dede Lifgren stated I haven’t heard Patterson residents
complain that there is not enough development going on in our community but I
have heard concerns about how, where and why development is going forward. I have heard developers, many who are not
local complain. Having an Environmental
Conservation Inspector and a Town Planner on our staff is an asset for
Patterson residents and protects our environment. I think most of us here live in Patterson
because we don’t want our open spaces to look like parts of
Ms. Adrianne Kavell stated I butted heads with Rich Williams
many times. With that being said the
Town of
Mr. Henry Zemsky stated I am happy to follow both Dede and
Adrianne because we have butted a couple of heads too. The one thing I would like to talk about is
one of the eliminations. I am in
agreement with what everyone had to say about them except for Mike Semo. I would like to talk about a part-time
elimination you are taking and he works in the
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
someone who has a passion for their job with. I don’t think they will come close to getting the same guy.
Ms. Chayenne Alberti stated I am President of the Golden Age
Seniors of Patterson. I am questioning
your actions for many seniors who couldn’t be here tonight who know Paul
Fava. Is Paul Fava being fired because
he will be seventy years young. If so,
this is age discrimination. He is
willing, eager and capable to work here.
We always see him with a smile and willing to help you for whatever
reason. I doubt you will be working at
his age with all the perks that go with a government position. There should be a freeze across the Board or
salary cuts for everyone. You all really
know what you are responsible for. Have
you ever once seen the log book. He has
a list of twenty duties. He oversees
twelve Town generators, maintains the air conditioning, does early morning
checks and I will leave out the other eighteen.
I bet he has many letters of commendation in his personnel file and not
one negative one. He works
Ms. Laura Secci stated as made reference here tonight by Rich Williams and Ted Kozlowski the advice and recommendations and I hope they are legal to provide that they are critical to the concerns of many homeowners and taxpayers in this Town. As a taxpayer and homeowner in a development which has many ongoing issues and with a developer that is causing more problems for us. By removing Mr. Williams and Mr. Kozlowski and hiring a consultant will add unnecessary excessive costs on an already strained budget and economy and could jeopardize the possible resolve of these costly concerns that we have. As evident and even more tonight, Mr. Williams and Mr. Kozlowski have an incredible knowledge base, integrity, familiarity with our Town and an expertise in the process of what lies before and what lies ahead. Hiring an outsider will delay progress and is an insult to them as professionals and to we as taxpayers. It is unfortunate and even disheartening that in such trying economic times when communities should be coming together and putting aside politics as usual and go ahead and take reconsideration to this issue. It is my hope and my expectations as a taxpayer and a community member that the Board focus more on helping the taxpayers along with the revitalization of our downtown to its quaint origins and bringing our community together.
Shawn Rogan stated I have been on the Planning Board for seven years and fortunate enough to be the Chairman for the last two years appointed most recently by this Board last year and I appreciate that. I enjoy my job as Planning Board Chairman. We have a difficult job on the Planning Board. There are quite a few members here tonight so if you have any questions about how difficult it is please ask them. Our job as a Planning Board, as many of you know, is to be a Board of reasonable people. As Rich Williams stated so well before we are not pro-development or anti-development we are neutral development. We take the rules that this Town Board has approved in our Zoning Code and we take the comprehensive plan that several people in the audience have been a part of creating and we take those guiding principals and documents and we apply them to the application that are before us. A big part of the planning process is being reasonable. I’ve been a proponent of the idea that if you zone property for a particular use that you have to automatically assume that someone is going to want to use that property for that use. You can’t be too disappointed when for instance when commercial property is zoned commercial and someone proposes commercial development. Our job as a Planning Board is to balance those things to see what can work. As Ted Kozlowski said earlier, our properties around Patterson are strictly limited. We have a lot of wetland
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
issues, and our job is to balance what is reasonable and what
is not. What is in the character of our
community. We go back to the
comprehensive plan and what the guiding document is for our Town. What does our community want Patterson to be
twenty five years from now. What legacy
do we want to leave for our children.
The Planning Board is a group of non-technical people. We are not Architects, Engineers and we are
certainly
Mr. O’Connor stated it was being looked at by a technician on Monday. It might be fixed right now.
Mr. Capasso stated who recommended that system for the Town Hall.
Mr. Griffin stated the architect.
Mr. Capasso stated I was told it was Rich Williams.
Mr. Griffin stated once again this is wrong; it was the architect Liscum McCormick & VanMorrison.
Mr. Capasso stated that came from Rich Williams, Mike.
Mr. Griffin stated that he designed the system.
Mr. Capasso stated that he recommended it.
Mr. Peter Hansen stated I care about this Town and I am also
the Treasure in the
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
there has to be lines set up in your budget that will capture your costs and take that off the burden of the taxpayers. The taxpayer in Patterson is supplementing those Special Districts when this happens. Similarly (inaudible) construction issues for the Hamlet Waste Water Treatment Plant including negotiating an agreement with NYCDEP. That is a capital cost and it belongs in the capital cost of the Waste Water Treatment Plant project. It does not belong at the foot of the taxpayer of Patterson. You need to make those corrections. In the budget itself you raised the unemployment appropriation to $21,000.00, I assume to cover the costs of these two individuals. That will erode some savings you might have hoped to bring forward. You also reduced revenue. You reduced the Zoning Board fees by $9,000.00 and the Planning Board fees by $105,000.00. I don’t know why that was. If that is a result of the head count, that is a huge imbalance and the wrong decision to make. You have an Engineer line in the budget that cost $190,000.00 in the year 2008. This year it is budgeted for $120,000.00. A $70,000.00 reduction over what it actually cost last year. Where is the service coming from to supplement the Town Planner and the ECI if you are reducing the cost of the Engineer too. It doesn’t make sense. You can’t have it this way. Your Planning Board personal services went from zero to $24,000.00. I don’t know what that is. Are we robbing Peter to pay Paul. You are taking the Planner out and giving someone else $24,000.00 to support the Planning Board. It doesn’t make sense. Your Code Enforcement Officer is going down from $26,000.00 to $17,000.00. It is not in keeping with what is necessary in this Town. We need to enforce our code on all the property owners, landlords in this Town to make sure we are all complying with these rules and regulations. Your total revenue in 2008 according to the Preliminary Budget is $4,591,747.00 against total expenditures of $3,721,428.00 which meant you had a fund balance of $871,499.00. I assume because some of that was from the sale of the library. That is about $598,000.00 in sale of your property which meant that the fund balance should be available for 2009 for $272,739.00. There is no contribution for fund balances in the Preliminary Budget.
Ms. Patricia Brooks, Comptroller stated there is $240,000.00.
Mr. Hansen stated where is that.
Ms. Brooks stated it is right on the first page.
Mr. Hansen stated I stand corrected.
Mr. Kassay stated if you would like Ms. Brooks would be more than happy to answer all your questions and go over that with you one at a time if you address them to her.
Mr. Hansen stated the point is, if you are going to vote on these issue tonight you need to address these issues now rather than later. I will say in support of the Environmental Conservation Inspector and the Town Planner I think you heard from this general public that they are over whelmingly in favor of keeping them both. I will close with what was our pet peeve during the last election. I believe that the Board’s salary should be frozen or reduced and the in-lieu of has to go away.
Mr. John Neubauer stated I am a small business owner. If you have an employee who goes above and beyond and works conscientiously and puts in more time then he is paid for you have something that is very, very rare. They can do far more for you then many others. Sometimes one employee can be as good as two in these circumstances. I think by eliminating these two positions, you are saying to your other employees in the Town that no good deed goes unpunished. It doesn’t make any sense.
Mr. Tom Van Doran stated I have two main problems. One being the in-lieu. $7,500.00 a year for someone who already has
benefits is a bit much. My wife worked
for a short period of time for the 911 system.
She had benefits from me because I am a fireman in
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
about to retire, now if my information is correct someone on the Board is about to retire in about a year and for the rest of his life he will receive $7,500.00. This is not a pension. This is in-lieu of. When you retire and lose an election you have benefits, you lost your $7,500.00, that’s it. You get a pension already. The other thing is I have been a Union guy for forty years. If someone works for the Highway Department and works an hour overtime the whole eight hours street time becomes eight hours of overtime. Is that the case.
Mr. Griffin stated that is one interpretation.
Mr. Van Doran stated I want that job. I want an application tonight. I started forty years ago as a Union guy and that has to be pulled out of their contract. Sorry guys. That’s ridiculous.
Mr. Ron Taylor stated I have attended the Planning Board
meetings for the last eighteen months and who has observed the Town Planner and
Code Enforcement Officials in action; I wish to speak of this budget
issue. I was going to give you an
example of one of the many sites they have to deal with but people pretty much
covered all the problems. To evaluate
them the Planning and Enforcement Officers provide a continuity of experience
in knowledge gained in previous development over many years and an
understanding of the history of the site and comprehensive overview that the services
of one time consultant could not provide.
The Town needs the services of a full-time Planner and the expertise of
an Enforcement Officer. What would be
the consequences of uncontrolled development if these people were cut
back. On the local level, this last
Thursday during the Planning Board Public Hearing for example, Phase II of the
Residential Subdivision was being considered.
Homeowners from Phase I complained that the (inaudible) has not
completed after more than twenty years all the work of the first Phase nor has
he honored his commitment to share in maintenance costs. All over Town developers have failed to
complete the site plans or install substandard waters or sewerage facilities. Who has to pay for those substandard roads
and for the new water and sewer districts.
The homeowners and us the Town residents. What is happening is the developers are
avoiding or postponing to the future the actual cost of development. The result is that future residents and we
the taxpayers are subsidizing developers.
Instead of eliminating or reducing Planning and Enforcement in an effort
to save the taxpayer as some propose, Planning and Enforcement should actually
be increased. There should be more
Enforcement to see that developers comply with the codes and their
agreements. How would these added costs
be paid for, here is a novel idea, stop subsidizing developers. Make them pay rather than the taxpayers. Direct and in directed development. Then market forces could operate
effectively. Here are some ways to pay
these costs. As with the Wetland Enforcement
we should increase Application and Enforcement Fees to reflect actual costs to
the Town. Fees should cover costs for
salaries and the people needed to oversee development. The Planner, Review Boards, Secretaries and
Enforcement Offices. Require Developers
to pay for necessary improvements up front not down the road. If a barn needs to be removed and road
straightened for a development then a Developer should pay, not the Town. Increase fines for violations to cover costs
of enforcement, including court costs and fees if the Town has to take a
Developer to court. Recover costs of
failed or incomplete development with posted bonds. The failure to meet conditions or complete
work should be rectified with the Town getting these costs out of the
Developers posted bonds. Being dependent
upon property taxes is a primary revenue source as proven to be unworkable and
destructive to the values of our Town.
Other sources of revenue must be found.
As I have already said the Town should increase fees to cover the real
cost of development otherwise all of us are subsidizing Developers. The State and County should pay fair value
for their land in the Town. There should
be revenue sharing. The Town should
receive a share of income and sales tax generated in Town. Right now it all goes to the County and the
State. This share should be a fix
percent, not subject to the whims of the legislature. For example, they are talking now eliminating
or reducing STAR. I realize the Town
does not control these revenue but Town Officials should be joining with the
callings across the State and should be raising hell in
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Town. Our Officials and we the voters should be pressuring our State and Federal Representatives whatever party they might be to produce some results by bring sustainable revenue to the local level and if not they should get out of office. The Federal and State Government should fund or postpone mandates. Our newly elected President promises to do something about unfunded mandates. Let’s get our Federal and State Representatives to push for the full funding of all mandates or suspend the mandates. School mandates should be included as well. The Country needs a stimulus package, well enough, fund the mandate.
Mr. Robert Lichenberger stated I want to thank the Board
for listening to what we have to say. I
worked very closely with the Board over many instances. For six to eight years as a
Ms. Janine Hacknie stated this is a great night because you are here and you are asking the same questions we are. We started our group because we are concerned with some issues with the Hamlet. We had the unconditional support of everyone sitting on this Board. It came as a tremendous disappointment to us as a group as well as me as an individual taxpayer to see such a disgraceful budget. I am embarrassed. I can’t even tell you how embarrassed I am. It will cost us, there is no advantage that anyone of us can see and I thank every single one of you who showed up tonight and put your personal lives aside to send a message to this Board. We are not sleeping at the wheel anymore. We expect and we are asking for accountability one hundred percent of the time from
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
everyone that sits in that chair and it starts with all of you. If you want to start looking at costs and ways to cut costs then I have to question why six weeks ago I am sitting at a Town Board meeting and we passed a motion for a full-time Recreation Director which I would say would be discretionary in the overall operation of this Town’s budget. That is a discretionary position. He is being paid as a per diem basis, no benefits, nothing. There was a sense of urgency, it had to be done. I supported that appointment. I think it was an excellent choice but little did I know or realize that six weeks later we would be talking about losing the one guy in that room and I continue to see who knows exactly what is going on in this Town and everyone of you at those meetings tend to look at him and say Rich what do you have on that, Rich what do you have on this. I would urge you to really put your political motivations aside because I truly don’t care about them. I want this man back in his job and take that seriously. As well as Ted Kozlowski who has done a phenomenal job and the thought that you could spend $13,000.00 any other better way is also short sited. We do have petitions signed. I would be glad to give them to you. Please reconsider your positions for the sake of this Town.
Ms. Tracy Gee stated most of what I was going to speak
about has already been addressed so I am going to talk about something that is
personal to me which is
Ms. Veronica Roche stated I am not going to speak on the
effects that some budget cuts will have on
Ms. Amy Lagan stated I attend regular Town Board
meetings and I have to urge everyone in this room who does not go to the
regular Town Board meetings that there is a lot more going on than we
know. Our Town Board meetings are not
televised; it is up to your discretion.
Please as we go forward I really do urge so many of you to come and
listen to what is going on. I’m so happy
to see all of you tonight. I am very
proud of this Town but I do want to bring up a subject that has not been
brought up tonight. I agree with the
majority of what people said here tonight.
We cannot get rid of Ted and Rich.
Let’s call it what it is. We are
trying to get rid of people who are getting in the way of big business or
development. We are going in the
opposite direction, you have to see that.
The facility that we are standing in has over a $400,000.00 budget, if
I’m not mistaken. Each year since 2004
this facility has lost $200,000.00 plus on top of the $400,000.00 budget. I would like to ask this Town Board, have you
been asleep at the wheel. Going forward
to the next budget the
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
given more money. Ginny and Joe who oversees this wonderful facility didn’t cut the Recreation budget or facilities budget. This facility that is losing $200,000.00 plus a year, we are going to give them more money. I come to this facility around six or seven times a week. I have three children. The only face that I have seen that has been consistent in this building has been Paul. That front door has been like a revolving door of employees. I don’t know who anyone is, I see new faces and from what I hear there was fifty-one employees that work in here.
Audience member stated twenty-one part-time employees.
Ms. Lagan stated I was mistaken. There is a preliminary background check done on people when they apply here. There was no drug testing, no accountability. I would like to urge our Town Board to trim the fat where we need to. I’m not saying to cut the Recreation budget, this place needs money, and I know that. People need to be aware that we are losing so much money here. Between two employees here making over $100,000.00 on a facility that is losing tons of money. I thank everyone for coming here tonight. I hope I see you at more Town Board meetings.
Mr. Griffin stated while we are on the subject of Town
Board meetings we will be voting on this budget next Wednesday,
Mrs. Nacerino stated excuse me Mr. Supervisor, Ms.
Brooks, Comptroller would like to address some of Amy’s concerns regarding the
Ms. Patricia Brooks, Comptroller stated the
Mr. Griffin stated the recreation programs still runs a deficit but this is not uncommon, most Town’s like Southeast I believe their deficit is in excess of $300,000.00. Very few recreation programs are a dollar for dollar wash. There probably are ways we could improve the situation.
Mr. Charlie Cook stated I support virtually everything that
has been said here tonight. I am also a
member of the Planning Board and as my boss, Shawn Rogan, stated earlier we
need a Town Planner, ECI, Building Inspector and Legal Counsel. We need them now. We don’t stop operating the first week of
January. We probably have thirty to
thirty-five applications from various stages before us that we are dealing
with. Someone commented before that the
Town Board refers to the Town Planner, the ECI or the Building Inspector and
it’s nothing compared to how we refer to questions and comments to those
people. We need their advice to do our
job for you. I certainly support those
positions and from what I am hearing the position relative to the
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
time or full-time that the Recreation budget calls for $245,000.00 in the Personnel Line, I’m not questioning that, but the contractual went from $122,000.00 in 2007 to $29,000.00 in 2008.
Ms. Brooks stated can I address that. The money was moved to the Programs Line where it should be which is two lines down.
Mr. Cook stated so it went from contractual to programs.
Ms. Brooks stated it went from 7140.4 that line was split to two lines down to 7146.4 for $91,020.00.
Mr. Cook stated my last point would be on the Union contract. I support that and I have negotiated many contracts. I would just hope that the Board obtains something from each side because negotiations are supposed to be a give and take and both sides are supposed to walk away with something. The best contracts are when both sides walk away a little bit disappointed.
Ms. Carrie Hernandez stated I lived in the area all my
life and chose Patterson to raise my three children. I love it here. I do have to say that cutting the Planner and
the Environmental Conservation Inspector does scare me a little bit. This is where I want my children to grow up
and I chose to come back here. My
children are learning in school to protect the wetlands. If you cut him how are we going to ensure
those areas are going to be protected for future generations. Ray Blanar is an amazing worker. Ray has also worked with the community, like
myself. I do think Ray is going to be a
great asset. If you cut back on things
like Ray and other people here, especially Mr. Fava, it’s not going to be that
official. I was brought up to respect my
elders especially those who fought in wars to fight for our freedom. Why are we going to cut him. Take a look at your own salaries. There are a lot of people in this room who
are living paycheck to paycheck who can’t figure out how to pay the rent,
electric or how you are going to put food on the table. I can bring my kids here and they can have
free play time and I don’t have to drive to
Ms. Eileen Cuneo stated I appreciate you hearing us all this evening. My first question is will there be answers provided tonight to some of the questions that have been raised.
Mr. Griffin stated I believe that Councilman O’Connor is going to be making some motions to amend the Preliminary Budget this evening. I don’t think those are going to be all of the changes that are going to be incorporated in the final budget but there are some things that he will be making motions on at the end of this Public Hearing.
Ms. Cuneo stated to what he said earlier.
Mr. Griffin stated yes.
Ms. Cuneo stated ok. Is it possible to get an answer about the memorandum of agreement on the Highway Contract.
Mr. Griffin stated that is on the agenda later on that I believe he will bring to a vote as well.
Ms. Cuneo stated I have a feeling there is a misunderstanding about what’s happening. I am a member of this organization called the “Parent Concerned Residents of Patterson”. We met with several Town Officials in the past to discuss issues on how to improve our Town; things that we are seeing that we think are being taken away from the value of our
Town. In our meetings, we have always had the full and unconditional support of Rich
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Williams and it would be a tragedy to lose him. The other person that we have had
unbelievable support from is Dave Raines.
I want it to be said publicly that we need a Code Enforcement Officer
more than anything in this Town. We
absolutely have to be protecting the values of our homes, the safety of our
streets, and the safety of the buildings that we walk into. I see that the total Code Enforcement salary
budget has been slightly dropped and I understand we are in tough times but
please can we do what we have to not to keep any Code Enforcement Officer but
the one that we have who I think is doing a phenomenal job. Finally in regard to the
Mr. Ray Blanar new Director of Recreation and Parks
stated I personally can’t change or help what has happened in the last four
years here. I can only move forward with
what is ahead of me and what I’ve done so far.
For the record, I know we are in the ballpark of $25,000.00 in revenue
in the month of September, October and the couple of weeks we have been in
November. This place has been
packed. We had one hundred and five kids
on Saturday night, sixty four kids for flag football, sixty kids for a four
week dodge ball session and youth basketball registration not to mention the
forty five people that we had last night for guitar class. The place is packed, it’s rolling, give it a
chance to take care of itself. I don’t
know exactly what the plan is with Paul.
I know I heard talks of cutting Paul completely. For the record, I am not in favor of
that. My suggestion with Paul’s situation
is we have a twenty hour a week custodian who is here from
Mr. Phil Capalbo, Highway Department, stated I would
like to thank everyone for coming out tonight.
I understand all of your concerns and I hope I can address some of
them. Sorry if it is getting a little
late but we wanted to hear exactly what concerns everyone had. Believe me when I tell you this was
negotiated at length with the best intentions of the Town and to try to get as
much as we could within reason and there was a lot of give and take. This didn’t just happen carte-blanche. This contract does not make anyone rich. That having been said let me first start by
explaining the contract before the Board tonight has a lot of time invested in
it. Both the Town Board’s Negotiating Team
and the Highway Departments/Sanitation Departments Negotiating Team spent many
hours hammering out details of what was acceptable and not acceptable for this
contract. It was finally agreed upon and
signed by all parties and is up for vote before the whole Board tonight. It is not open for renegotiating not even by
us. If the contract fails to pass the
Board’s approval it will go to new negotiations again. With this said let me explain why these men
deserve this contract. The Highway
Department for any Town is always seen as an expense or tax burden for the
people of the Town. Most Town’s you
could be justified. I have worked for
the Town of
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
are not qualified, but they don’t do all their work in
house. This Town has thirteen men and
you get all your work done in house.
None is sub-contracted out, at a far less rate that it would cost to
sub-contract it out, I assure you. The
Highway Department has done (inaudible) catch basin installations and repaired
all (inaudible) removal in Town all year long, the trees taken down in Town are
cut and split by the Highway Department and used to heat three buildings on
Town property. This with a leased oil
burner in the shop is a major savings to the Town and offsets the cost of fuel. Very little fuel oil is spent. It all goes into the equipment to run the
equipment. The Highway Department does
your entire grade and sub-grade work on your dirt roads, all facets of
paving. Very few Towns (inaudible)
within probably at least three times North and South of you do all that work
and almost every bit of it is sub-contracted out for paving on new and old
roads. They do all the repair and
patchwork on all the roads all year long.
Mowing occurs on all of our roads four times a year and not twice which
is required. With the trim work being
done (inaudible) for visibility all seasons.
Signage, installation and repairs are done all season long. Many special projects are continually being
done at the Board’s request. All heavy
equipment and small equipment repairs are done in house from engine rebuilds,
welding repairs to weed whacking. A
major savings to the Town in not having this work sent out and being done by a
qualified gentleman in the garage. I
will tell you that yes, you do have a couple of new pieces of equipment, but I
will tell you probably seventy percent out of those fifty pieces are well over
ten years old and some going past fifteen and twenty years old. You have maybe eleven pieces that are eight
years old out of fifty pieces. That
equipment has been maintained for such a long time and every other Town has a
ten year rotation program on all powered equipment. After ten years it is usually met and exceeded
its life expectancy and is rotated out and sent out for auction. While it is still good for someone else and
it is no use to you before the repairs start costing you a lot of money. Not here, Charlie makes sure that stuff is
done, repaired and done at the very least cost to the Town. I can’t believe that we still have stuff that
is twenty-five years old, that’s amazing.
You are getting a lot done just on that end. Last but not least is the plowing. You have thirteen men, sixty-seven miles of
road, no riders which means no one is being paid to sit in the passenger seat
and no shifts. It is in our contract
from November 1, to April 1 we are here twenty-four hours seven days a week on
call. You are required that if you get
called in you are here unless you are really sick. You cannot “sick out”. You cannot have a “sick out” and ban together
and try to hold it over the Town Board’s head to get more money. You are to be here for those months,
twenty-four hours, seven days a week and I will tell you if one of them misses
and there is a route not being done then twelve guys have to try and make up
the difference. They come in sick for
six months out of the year to get that route done because they know it is a
burden for someone else. It’s not easy,
believe me. Anyone who thinks that it’s
easy driving those trucks believe me its not, the roads are slippery for us
just like it is for you. Just because we
have a big truck it’s worse. We are
carrying thirteen ton and it’s no different then you car. We slip going down a hill just like you do. If it snows we come in. We don’t go home until all roads are safe and
clear without the plow. This sometimes
can go into days. Especially during
school days. We have to be out before
the schools get out too pick up those kids.
The
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
That is fine.
That is the give and take from both sides. We realize we can’t make everybody happy all
the time but I would like to thank the many people who stop by the job to say
thank you and that we are doing a good job.
It means a lot. We take a lot of
criticism, especially during the winter, but I have to tell you there are just
as many people that stop by to tell us how happy they are. Believe me when I tell you that thirteen guys
that are worn out and sick and tired of seeing each other for three days
straight, it is nice when someone calls down to the Town Hall and tells us we
did a great job. It means a lot. Doing all your Highway functions in house is
just one way Charlie William’s saves money for the taxpayers. He has also been smart enough to buy salt,
sand and many other materials and products for stock at yesterday’s prices over
the years, instead of waiting until you need them. We have a million projects but only so many
are going to get done this year. He
knows they will get done and that material is already there at yesterday’s
price. That is being financially sound
which the man has always been. Charlie and
I don’t always see eye to eye on things, but I tell you right now he has
financially invested with his heart. I
want to close by thanking Ernie Kassay and Ginny Nacerino for negotiating on
the Board’s behalf who went the distance and I know it wasn’t easy. I would like to encourage the Board to vote on
this tonight and take into consideration on all you heard on both parties. I would like to try and clear up the part of
the contract which happens to be the time and half. Understand that our winter hours that we are
contractually obligated to run from November 1 to April 1. Those are the winter months and they are the
months that are listed for the time and a half that is in question. The best way to explain this would be that
very rarely does this happen that we would get overtime in the fashion that Mr.
Byron and one other gentleman said. Yes,
it is possible for one hour to equal into nine hours of overtime. That would be to say that Charlie William’s
doesn’t have your best interest at heart.
He would have to call us in at
Mr. Griffin stated Charlie congratulations on Chuck
Mulligan retiring. Are you going to be
able to do everything you have done in the past, considering that you have
graciously agreed to do the
Mr. Charlie Williams stated yes we will. That is why the Highway Department budget is a zero percent tax increase.
Mr. Jim Utter stated I wanted to be here to acknowledge the tremendous role Rich Williams and Ted Kozlowski play. The other Towns have four or five consultants and it costs a lot more. The consultants are not on hand. Rich and Ted are right here. Their expertise is really outstanding, their knowledge they are constantly working on. Rich ends up trying to solve problems before they actually become problems, like the Stormwater Management. The Town is so much better off in having a full-time Planner and an Environmental Inspector. They are so much worth the little bit of money they are costing us. The thing that is really appealing to most people I spoke to in the Town is this feeling of openness, ruralness and that comes from planning development. Putnam used to say this is where the country began and we all know that is not true anymore but Patterson is where the country begins.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Mr. Dan Kuchta stated I would like to make some
supporting comments about Rich and Ted.
As a resident of the Town, I have attended many Zoning and Planning
Board meetings. I think I attend all of
the Zoning Board meetings that Ginny was on the Zoning Board. I had witnessed first hand both Ted and Rich
give both of these Boards invaluable advice and they do so because they have
been residents of the Town for a very long time. They know the history of a lot of these very
complicated properties. They understand
how the code evolves over time. Ginny, I
know you first hand have benefited from a lot of the advice Rich has given you
while you were a Zoning Board member. I
hope in the two years that you have been on the Town Board you haven’t
forgotten that. Something else I would
like to commit on tonight that I haven’t heard tonight. There were some emails and I received one
document attacking Rich’s education. I
feel this is mean spirited and totally unwarranted. Rich is the expert he is today because he has
taken a lot of training courses. In fact,
Rich has taken so many training courses when I asked him how many he couldn’t
tell me the number. We the residents of
the Town of
Mr. O’Connor stated I haven’t made the motion yet, but I will when the meeting starts.
Mr. Kuchta stated ok, than you hinted to make a motion. I don’t feel your motion goes far enough. I would encourage you to either drop it down to something like $600.00 a year or eliminate it entirely. Ed you also made a hint of a motion to ask employees to start contributing to their own health care. I contribute to my own health care unfortunately the increases in my contribution offset any gains I’ve made in income. I know a lot of people contribute to their own health care and I think it is time for you to start doing that. I looked through the budget and I couldn’t see anything specifically related to the monies involved in building the Court House. My understanding is that the court house is going to break ground in 2009. I would like to see that put on display so we could all see what the true cost of that is going to be. Finally, the Town collects $130.00 per year from everyone who has Comcast cable. There is a franchise fee that is tacked onto our bill. I would like to see a portion of that franchise fee applied to 2009 toward taking and airing Town Board, Zoning and Planning Board meetings. I counted four hundred people in this room. There is clearly a lot of interest in what is going on in this room and it would do us all a service to start taping the meetings and airing them on our public access channel.
Mr. John Baher stated I would like to first open with the first experience I had with Rich Williams. It was dealing with a failed development and failed developer who had developed the land that he bought. They did not bring the road up to code and we had to go back and go after the bond and have the road paved and brought up to certain specifications. Rich was instrumental and quite frankly we couldn’t have done it without him. The good men in orange did all the work so I hope you won’t take this as any sort of diminution or an attack on your work or the contributions on society because I don’t think anyone questions that. However I have seen many Union agreements in my career but I have never seen one that provides time and a half over and above eight hours. No one disputes the necessity of time and a half or additional payment or holiday time when you guys do go in and miss Christmas and Thanksgiving. I understand you do get double time. I think no one disputes that you earn every penny of time and a half that you are entitled to for every hour you work in access of forty hours per week. Just like most of American’s in the working world. While Charlie may be a good steward of our funds we can’t predict what might happen when Charlie is gone. Once you put something into a Union agreement as many of us know this, it takes an act of God to get it out. Once we set this precedent we are going to be putting it on future generations and future taxpayers who are not represented here. Unfortunately, without certain controls in place, the clause that I read is just ripe for abuse. There are no guarantees no protection to the taxpayer that it could not be abused. Again, this is not to impugn the good work that you do and
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
the hardwork you do in supporting and maintaining the
community. You are crucial to our
community. However, we are all talking
about making sacrifices. A lot of us
have been making sacrifices. Some of us
in this room have lost our jobs in the last six months, some of us may lose our
job, some of us have our job hanging in the balance at this meeting here
tonight. I don’t think anyone is
suggesting that you take a pay cut. No
one is challenging the rates of increase that you are entitled to, the cost of
living increases that you are all entitled to over the course of the life of
this contract. However, there is one
clause that some of us do take exception to and please don’t take that as
anything less than opposition to that clause.
I would also like to point out and I have a question that the contract
as I saw it had more signatures from representatives of the
Mr. Larry Maxwell stated I am the Town Historian for the
Town of
Mr. Steve Mandras stated I have sat here and listened to the entire Town’s people pretty much with one voice. I heard Mr. Semo with a bit of a different voice. One of the things as I was doing my job on Wall Street, I had a lot of work to do with budgets and one of the things that was very important was to be transparent. Transparent about the changes that you were making. Making everyone very aware why you were making changes, whether you were adding money into a budget or in bad times or removing money from the budget. One of the things that I noticed is that everyone who has come up here that has fought for Rich or Ted or Paul, I don’t think anyone here knows why you guys took them out of the budget. Everyone kind of assumes we are trying to cut the budget, there are signs up and down Route 22 and Route 311 to support the budget cuts, you are cutting in the wrong places. These people are so valuable to our Town. We are removing them under the guides of budget cuts. Everyone that has come here has said their piece and you listened very nicely, are we in this Public Hearing allowed to ask you questions and have answers come back to us.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Mr. Griffin stated yes.
Mr. Mandras stated good, I ask the Town Board members that were responsible for publishing the Preliminary Budget which took the Tentative Budget and had the removals of Rich Williams, Ted Kozlowski and Paul Fava why were those people removed. Can you please tell the public what the actual reason was.
Mr. Kassay stated I would be more than happy to attempt to answer the question. I think I did in the very beginning of the meeting. Town Law Section 108 deals with the budget process. We are here tonight to listen to comments that the public wishes to make. We are not obligated to answer any of the questions. We are here to listen to what the fine folks in this room say. I have taken three pages of notes on every speaker and I intend to go over it in this next week. Unfortunately we do not have two weeks to review it. As far as I know and I will be asking Counsel, in a Public Hearing there are no motions to be made or votes taken. If Counsel at the appropriate time will address that and we will appreciate that so we all know where we stand legally. All I am doing here tonight, like the rest of this Board, is following what the law says. We are going to sit here and listen and go over your comments and have a meeting here next Wednesday evening in which we will vote on the budget. Unfortunately, because of the time frame of the budget which comes to about thirty days, and all the negative misinformation that has been circling around on the internet, I for one would love nothing better then to have informational meetings to address every single allegation that has been made here tonight. If you think for one minute that we sat around and did nothing for twenty days you are sadly mistaken. This has been a very difficult budget. The most difficult budget I have ever sat on in fifteen years. People need to realize the economic situation and it is going to get gravely worse in the next year. I don’t sit up here and enjoy having to telling someone that there is a possibility that they may not have their job tomorrow. I would not be doing my job if I did not safeguard the people in this Town. I believe it is somewhere around 12,000 people we represent. I don’t see 12,000 people here, but I certainly heard what you had to say. Right now I have thirty-three people that stood at that mike and made comments and we will certainly go over those comments and see what they warrant. This is the truth and nothing but. You may not want to hear that but that is the way it is.
Mr. Mandras stated thank you very much Mr. Kassay. Would any other Town Board member like to answer my question tonight. Does anyone else feel obligated enough to answer why they were removed from the budget. What is the reason, we want to know. We sat up here for three hours going over reasons why we think these guys should stay here. Why should we take money out of our pockets put it in the taxes and keep these guys on the books. Why we think in-lieu has to go. $115,000.00 of in-lieu in our budget. Get rid of it. What about you guys, you are making to much money, take some cuts.
Mrs. Nacerino stated I have no problem directing your question. I appreciate everyone that came here tonight with comments. It did not fall on deaf ears. I would like to take all these comments, digest them before I make my decision. I am reluctant to make a decision tonight because I feel what the people said this evening and I realize there has been unison but I would like the time and luxury to go back on some of these proposals that were mentioned tonight that need to be revisited. The Preliminary Budget is not set in stone and that is why we are here tonight to address all the concerns in a forum such as this to be able to get your feedback. The reason behind the cutting of the positions was to see if it was possible, and I’m not saying it is or is not, to step up our level of professionalism to see if we could possibly out source where we could look to see where the duplication of services exists. If you think the duplication of services does not exist you are sadly mistaken. I hope that I answered your question.
Mr. Mandras stated I would hope that examining and I would hope that the analysis of outsourcing would be done before you make this decision. You are telling the public that you are taking the positions out before you go and do an analysis.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Mrs. Nacerino stated we are working on it but we don’t have one completed now.
Mr. Mandras stated then I sure hope you wait until the 2010 budget before you cut these guys. You have to do the right thing.
Mr. O’Connor stated I will tell you why these people were cut from the budget; I don’t have the faintest idea. The answers that I am tempted to give would not be very complimentary to some other people.
Mr. Robert Farese stated we are all down on this Town Board but I would like to say that they have opened up to reduce our taxes. We have a forum here that you people have to tell them. In the past I haven’t seen this forum in Patterson. It was a stamp and the budget was approved. Now we have something to work with. I commend the people of Patterson for coming forward to make us all understand that this is a number one priority and let’s get it done. Thank you Board.
Mr. O’Connor stated sometimes it takes something fairly outrageous to wake people up.
Ms. Barbara See stated I am concerned about Mr. Kassay’s
remark that there are 12,000 people who live in Patterson and there are 300
here making it seem like that is petty, it’s not enough and that only 33 people
have come up to speak. Meanwhile you
have to hear the applause, not everyone can come up here and talk in front of a
group like this. You have to give people
credit for coming and take that into consideration. Whatever it is you are going to decide on
this budget, these people came out whether they spoke or not you need to listen
to what everyone said. I am going to
replicate what most of the people said that came up to this microphone. Rich Williams is a fantastic asset to this
community. This man is so educated and
is looking towards our future with the MS4 mandate and the problems with the
stormwater we are dealing with and the DEP.
Someone else said at the Board meetings everyone refers back to
Rich. There is a reason for that. On
Town they are not going to be able to afford this. You add it up over time and it’s
ridiculous. Mike Griffin is having his
salary cut and everyone else is getting a two percent pay raise. It makes no sense. Like everyone said freeze your salaries or
reduce them. We are in a fiscal
crisis. Not one of us has ever been
through this before. We are only getting
the tip of it.
Mr. Kassay asked Ms. Patricia Brooks to explain the in-lieu of medical so everyone has a better idea of what that is all about.
Ms. Patricia Brooks, Town Comptroller stated the policy for the medical in-lieu is that you will get paid out fifty percent of whatever the cost of that policy is. If you take the family plan it’s around $15,500.00, so then you would get half of that paid to you. That saves the Town half in medical insurance. If you do away with the whole amount of in-lieu then the Town would pay the $15,500.00 per family. It is an assumption, but I did an analysis and the Town does save half of whoever is on the in-lieu. We have fifty percent participation. In that program the other Town’s are at ten or less.
Audience member stated we don’t care about the other Towns, we care about our Town.
Ms. Brooks stated I understand that, but that is a savings to the Town. If you did away with in-lieu all together, you can do that but are you willing to pay the $15,500.00 for the ones who are receiving the in-lieu.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Mr. Ed O’Connor stated Southeast does have in-lieu for a
flat fee of $2,500.00. Most Towns do
have some sort of in-lieu. The City of
Mr. Tim Curtiss, Town Attorney stated you have a meeting coming up right after this. In a Public Hearing you generally don’t make motions, but if you are going to adjourn the Preliminary Budget meeting and go right into a regular meeting then that is appropriate to do.
Mr. Malcolm Baxter stated why do we need to build a new Court House. What was wrong with the Court House we had. Why don’t we just pull the plug on the whole Court House.
Mr. O’Connor stated we don’t have a Court House anymore the library bought the entire building and we are paying rent until they evict us.
Mr. Baxter stated couldn’t we put the Court House in
this building or in the fire station.
Could we not rent space in the new Court House in
Mr. Griffin stated a couple of issues relative to the new Court House. We have out grown the current Court House. We spoke at length with the judges and they gave us very compelling reasons why they thought this was an appropriate move. Currently we have 1.2 million dollars in grants and if we don’t move forward with the Court House we will lose it. Sometime in the future we will have to build a new Court House and we won’t have the grant money available.
Mr. O’Connor stated myself and Mrs. Nacerino did go up to Kent to see if their courtroom which is also their meeting room would be available and appropriate and they felt there was nothing appropriate for us. But we did think of that.
Mr. Chuck Withendahl stated I was looking at the assessment budget and the expenditures for 2007 were $114,000.00 and this year’s amended budget is $171,000.00. That is about a fifty percent increase. I thought that the assessment situation was something that was going to go on for five years where everyone’s assessment went up dramatically over a five year period and since the assessed value seemed to have gone down because there are so many houses for sale in this area and they can’t get the assessed value. Why is the budget so high and why haven’t we seen a more dramatic reduction in our assessed valuation in the last year.
Mr. Griffin stated while Ms. Brooks is looking that up I
can tell you one of the reasons your assessments haven’t decreased dramatically
is because your assessments are set by the State of
Mr. Baxter stated if that is the case then why do we have an Assessor.
Mr. Griffin stated because he has to come up with the assessments, the State verifies them…….you can shake your head all you want I’m just telling you how it works.
Mr. Baxter stated they don’t have an Assessor in Pawling.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Mr. Griffin stated I couldn’t speak for Pawling. I can tell you what we are required to do in
Patterson and what we are required to do in
Mr. Baxter stated whose requirement.
Mr. Griffin stated State of
Mr. Baxter stated you can have a Clerical do that, you don’t have to hire an outside professional.
Mr. Griffin stated there are two ways to do it in the
State of
Mr. Baxter stated then I will do some investigating on my own and we will continue this conversation.
Ms. Brooks stated the assessment line in 2007 is a
shared assessment with the Town of
Ms. Claudia Rodriguez stated we are in an internationally and globally crisis. We are losing jobs all over. (inaudible) You guys represent us; you are not doing us a favor. You are supposed to hear our voice and act according to it. The two words are accountability and transparency, that’s what we need.
Mr. Tom Dunner stated we have a magnificent brand new
County Court House sitting in
Mr. Robert Lichenberger stated I have a question for each individual person. I would like to know, starting with Joe, what your intentions of running for office again are.
Mr. Capasso stated I will let you know in three years.
Mr. Lichenberger stated Ed yes or no.
Mr. O’Connor stated not a snowballs chance in the hot place.
Mr. Lichenberger stated Mike yes or no.
Mr. Griffin stated highly unlikely.
Ms. Nacerino stated I reserve answering that question.
Mr. Lichenberg stated we will take that as a yes. Mr. Kassay yes or no.
Mr. Kassay stated if I am alive next April I will think about it.
Mr. Lichenberg stated thank you. I would like to speak about the Highway
Department. I am a lucky person because
I had the distinct honor of working with them in
Town Board member stated yes.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Mr. Lichenberg stated then give them the contract because they deserve it.
Mr. Griffin stated keep in mind this is a three year contract and their intention is to hire the fourteenth person in 2010. At least that is the understanding I had from the Highway Superintendent.
Mr. Lichenberg stated I think we can only spend the money in the right places. Our children’s and residents’ safety, getting out and about, these guys do a phenomenal job. I see them all the time on the road. I don’t think that is one spot anyone can complain about. If they wanted to hire three more guys there would be more discussion about that. There a man down and they are going to provide the same service with no tax increase to the public. It’s a no brainer. They deserve it.
Mr. Kassay stated the Highway Department’s budget is zero percent increase. The Preliminary Budget is minus a half of percent. The Tentative Budget is between two and half and two and three quarter percent increase.
Mr. Lichenberg stated the Comptroller made a statement that by giving the in-lieu of in the amount of $7,600.00, we are saving taxpayers another $7,600.00 because people won’t be taking the benefits because they will take the money. That’s a great theory and I understand that. What I do in my business of thirty five employees, the person who works for me, and I love my staff I would do anything for them, but as a small business owner I can’t afford to pay family benefits when only one person works for me. What I do is I pay half of the single rate for my employees. If they need family benefits they co-pay the difference out of their pocket. You say we are saving money. My theory is if you offer single benefits and the Town picks that up at a full expense of $360.00 per month per single individual it (inaudible) they co-pay, then they are not going to take the benefits because they are going to sit back and say I can get myself covered but to add my family to get covered it is going to cost me $210.00 a week or whatever, they are not going to take it. In today’s economy that amount of co-pay and to offer one hundred percent benefit without a co-pay is a rip off to the taxpayer. I pay for my benefits and fifty percent of my employees benefits. Based on the economy I’m going to have to cut it back to forty percent. That is the reality. By-the-way I do not offer insurance to my part-time employees. It is against the law to do that. Maybe you guys are exempt. The education I got two weeks ago, I could be in prison with a $10,000.00 fine for giving benefits to a person who works eighteen hours a week. I don’t know what the job classifications are that some of you have and on top of that some of you work for other taxpaying positions that are already receiving benefits at the taxpayer’s expense. I am not singling anyone out but if someone works for the school or a County job they are already getting tax paid benefits. How could the taxpayer pay twice. When are we going to get a copy of the decisions that you made on these topics or is it going to be next Wednesday night when we have no time to read it. Maybe you meeting should be Monday night so we still have a couple of days to discuss what options we have.
Mrs. Nacerino stated we can still do that. We can certainly meet one more time between now and then.
Mr. Lichenberg stated I think the people here want to know what the changes are going to be. I understand by State law this budget has to be adopted, signed into law by the 20th and if it is not done or agreed upon your Preliminary Budget which everyone here hates will go into law. Mr. Kassay I would like to say that the three hundred people that are here or obviously the three hundred people that care and the 11,700 that didn’t show up tonight are backing us because we are here.
Mr. Kassay stated I made that statement because it was
the proper statement to make. I also
live in
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Mr. Lichenberger stated if you guys were willing to give an answer to justify why you are eliminating certain positions, I think the people might be more receptive. What doesn’t make sense to us is to take away an employee of $80,000.00 and turn around and pay $200,000.00 in consulting fees. We are not dumb people. We are smart and we have to have pretty good jobs to pay our taxes to live in Patterson.
Mr. Kassay stated and either is this Town Board dumb.
Mr. Lichenberger stated I’m not disputing that either but your reluctance to answer the questions, the people are here for the facts.
Mr. Kassay stated the forum does not allow for us to get into a debate with you. We are here to listen to you. We are listening. I like to follow what the law says because I don’t want to be accused of doing something here by anyone that I did something illegal. What it says is that once we listen to your comments, we take them under advisement and on the 19th a decision will be voted on. There is nothing in the law about anything else. We have generated a Preliminary Budget. We showed you what those figures are. You have them and you asked all your questions, made comments. If you wanted any financial answers our Comptroller is here. That is why she is sitting here. I haven’t heard anyone ask her one question. I have asked her to give a few answers. We have legal Counsel here and if there is any problem we can ask him. Let’s say hypothetically that we have a difference of opinion. I would say to you these are the facts and figures I have, some people in the community have a different opinion then you do. This Preliminary Budget didn’t appear overnight. I don’t think it is the forum to single out individuals. We are addressing the Town Planner position not Mr. Rich Williams. I don’t want to get into names. We went by title.
Mr. Lichenberger stated I think we are all looking for answers.
Mr. Griffin stated Counsel is there anything in the law that states the Town Board can’t answer questions at a Public Hearing.
Mr. Curtiss stated no, that is up to the Board.
Mr. Griffin stated so it’s not against the law to answer questions.
Mr. Kassay stated except we chose not to answer them because we wanted to know the information.
Mr. O’Connor stated I keep hearing the word “we”. I hope that people don’t think that I am included in this “we”. I was not included in none of the changes from the Tentative Budget to the Preliminary Budget.
Mr. Kassay stated Mr. O’Connor I respectfully disagree.
Mr. O’Connor stated we spoke and I told you my opinion and my opinion (inaudible).
Mr. Kassay stated what about the meeting we had with Trish, you and I upstairs.
Mr. O’Connor stated that is the one I am talking about.
Mr. Kassay stated so we did have a meeting.
Mr. O’Connor stated none of the actual data in the Preliminary Budget are anything that I suggested. I made my voice heard and that was the end of that.
Mr. Kassay stated it was an informal decision on those items and because there were three informal decisions that is what produced the Preliminary Budget, so you were
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
included in it. As a matter of fact, there were two meetings, one we had to sign a waiver for and you were there along with the rest of the Board and the Comptroller.
Mr. O’Connor stated I didn’t say I wasn’t there.
Mr. Kassay stated you had your input.
Mr. O’Connor stated my input was ignored.
Mr. Kassay stated I want to make sure the people understand…….
Mr. Griffin stated I think everyone understands.
Mr. John Baher stated pertaining to the zero percent increase in the Highway Department budget, I would question, as we all know, a budget is a planning document. It is an attempt to predict future expenses. I would seriously question whether or not you can predict an expense that is based upon weather conditions.
Mr. Kassay stated all you can do is put in a budget that was there last year.
Mr. Baher stated this is true.
Mr. Kassay stated that is what was done as far as I know.
Mr. Baher stated but you cannot predict labor expenses that are tied to weather events.
Mr. Kassay stated what happens if there is only two snow storms this year.
Mr. Baher stated what happens if it snows like hell between now and January 31.
Mr. Kassay stated we have been through that.
Mr. Charlie Williams stated we will be there. I haven’t gone over budget since the year 2000 since I have been the Highway Superintendent.
Mr. Griffin stated you have to come up to the microphone. One speaker at a time please.
Mr. Baher stated the point being no one intends to undermine your contributions or suggest that you lose positions or lose a dime of current wage. However, I think it is very challenging to predict weather events and I live on a private road that you don’t maintain but I have no problem paying for your services.
Mr. Kassay stated here is a prime example. What I read in that law was that we are here to listen to your comments that is our top priority. If we are going to start bickering back and forth there would be total chaos and nothing will get accomplished and that is what some of the folks here are trying to do. I am trying to be a little more courteous than I am expected to be and I am not going to entertain anymore of your trying to bate us into an argument. If that is what you want to do, do it elsewhere, because I’m not going to listen to you.
Ms. Lisette Kubie stated I know it is getting really late. The first thing I want to say is please don’t leave. Realize if Mr. O’Connor doesn’t have time to add back Rich Williams and Mr. Fava’s position in his resolutions this will go into effect next week. I just want to say one thing. I see everything very clearly. The tambour with which certain Board members, who I’m not going to identify at this point and the animosity and the arrogance in which we are being spoken to tonight, reeks of the fear that some people are feeling right now. Mr. Capasso, Mrs. Nacerino and Mr. Kassay are looking to eliminate positions that protect the very integrity of the environmental issues of further development of common sense development speak to the smell of asphalt, as far as I’m
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
concerned. I think they have interests that they are serving that are not serving us. Name one instance where a consultant makes less than an employee. You annoyed a lot of people that is why there are so many people here. You should be afraid; I know you are angry, that is pretty obvious. That is why you are screaming at people.
Mr. Kassay stated no, I’m fine. I’m here to listen to your comments.
Ms. Kubie stated I think you are foolish. I look forward to staying here as late as it is to make sure to do everything I can and to watch and see what happens as far as the reinstatement in the budget of the positions of the Town Planner, ECI and Mr. Fava.
I support the highway guys.
Mr. Charlie Cook stated regarding the in-lieu of. Current policy was set up; change the policy, end of story. Why not have public meetings between the time that the Tentative Budget is given to the Board and the Public Hearing. Have meetings devoted to that so the public can sit and listen to the Board and debate the Tentative Budget. Is there a Capital Budget for the year 2009.
Mr. Griffin stated yes.
Mr. Cook stated isn’t that supposed to be part of the budget that gets discussed at a public hearing. The Capital Budget has to include a dollar amount that translates to a borrowing amount that translates to some kind of line item on the budget.
Mr. Griffin stated when debts exist it is directly reflected on when the borrowing takes place. If the borrowings take place after July then there are no debt services along for that year.
Mr. Cook stated but you need a Capital Budget to be approved.
Ms. Brooks stated the way that Patterson has done Capital Budget in the past is the Town Board approves the project and the project is competed. There are usually grants involved that offset the costs and when the borrowing takes place then that amount of the debt service is put onto the proper line, whether it is General Funds, Fire District or (inaudible).
Mr. Cook stated Mike my only point being is that there should be a Capital Budget that the community knows what the Board is planning on doing for next year. Grants come and there is a dollar amount. Grants come through and you apply them to that dollar amount and you borrow the difference, but we don’t know what Capital projects the Board is going to go forward with.
Ms. Marsha Thompson stated I live in
Mr. Kassay stated you can talk to me anytime you want.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Ms. Thompson stated b… s… You are only at the Town Hall twice a month and everyone knows it. I’ve known you a long time Ernie, don’t forget that.
Mr. Kassay stated I have to be here are least four times.
Ms. Thompson stated you attend two meetings. I just want to know when we are going to see this revised updated recommended budget that you are going to come out with.
Mr. Kassay stated we are going to go over the comments that were made tonight.
Ms. Thompson stated I don’t want an answer from you I want an answer from Mike.
Mr. Griffin stated Marsha I can’t give you an answer. The only next scheduled Town Board meeting that I can speak to is on November 19th when we will have a regular agenda and part of that meeting we will include the adoption of the final budget.
Ms. Thompson stated so what you are saying is it is going to be shoved down our throats next Wednesday night.
Mr. Griffin stated what I am saying is if we take no action to amend the Preliminary Budget tonight then if we take no additional action on the 19th this becomes a final budget. I would hope Councilman O’Connor would put certain changes to the budget on the table tonight.
Ms. Thompson stated Ed I beg of you to please make the necessary amendments.
Mr. Griffin stated I am not saying we are going to make them all, but there are some critical ones I would like to have votes on tonight.
Mr. O’Connor stated I started this meeting tonight by saying it is my intention to make a few proposed changes to the budget at the close of the Public Hearing. The Board can either entertain them or not.
Mrs. Nacerino stated Mr. O’Connor why do we have to close the Public Hearing if we are considering things that you have proposed. There are other things that people have suggested here that we might propose. I think it we should meet between now and the 19th.
Mr. O’Connor stated our esteemed Town Attorney said that if I would wish to make any proposed changes to the Preliminary Budget I should do so at the close of the Public Hearing not during the Public Hearing.
Mrs. Nacerino stated not necessarily at the close of the Public Hearing this evening. We could convene tomorrow or Monday and maybe……
Mr. Curtiss stated you can adjourn the Public Hearing and still make your motion.
Mr. O’Connor made a motion to adjourn the Public Hearing.
Mr. Kassay stated I didn’t hear a second.
Mr. Griffin stated time out. Are we closing the Public Hearing.
Audience Members stated no.
Mr. Griffin stated if we don’t close the Public Hearing we have to do it by the 15th. We can not legally advertise another meeting between now and then. By law it is a minimum of five days notice in the official Town newspaper. Counsel if we adjourn the meeting can we simply just set another date because we already advertised it.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Mr. Curtiss stated do you mean for the Public Hearing.
Mr. Griffin stated if we carried the Public Hearing over to another night between now and then, it has to be closed by law by the 15th.
Mr. Curtiss stated that is correct. You can’t go beyond the 15th.
Mr. Griffin stated so in other words if today is the 12th that gives us three days in which we would have to reconvene to discuss this at some other time. If we close the Pubic Hearing tonight, Mr. O’Connor can make his proposed changes to the budget and the Board can vote on them.
Mr. Curtiss stated yes.
Mr. Griffin stated do you want to close the Public Hearing, Mr. O’Connor.
Mr. Curtiss stated you could adjourn the Public Hearing tonight and you can still make his motion to make the changes that he wants to the budget and if the Board approves it…..
Mr. Griffin stated and if we do not reconvene before the 15th we will not need the statutory requirement of the law.
Mr. Curtiss stated right. You want the five days but you advertised the five days.
Mr. Griffin stated I understand that but if this Board does not reconvene we will not need the stature requirement of the law.
Mr. Curtiss stated yes.
Mr. Griffin stated my recommendation at this point would be to close the Public Hearing, because I don’t know if this Board can or will reconvene in the next three days.
Mr. Kassay stated Tim can I ask you a question. If Mr. O’Connor wants to make his motion regarding this budget, he doesn’t have it on his agenda so he would have to do it under other business, is that correct.
Mr. Curtiss stated what happens with the Board is you can make a motion to either add it or put it on your agenda as an agenda item and vote on it if you want to do that. You have done that in the past.
Mr. Griffin stated there is a provision that Mr. O’Connor can ask to have that added to his agenda.
Mr. Kassay stated but it has to come to a vote.
Mrs. Nacerino stated Mr. Curtiss if we close the Public Hearing this evening and there are other changes that other Board members would like to propose are we now cut off from making those changes.
Mr. Curtiss stated no. You can make any proposals you want, all we do is end the public side of the input into the budget. You can make changes yourself between now and the 15th.
Mr. Griffin stated but before we adopt the final budget we could have any discussion we chose to have and take whatever input we chose to take from the public.
Mrs. Nacerino stated then why are we making any motions tonight without having the consideration to be able to digest and review all the things that went on this evening.
PATTERSON TOWN BOARD
TOWN BOARD MEETING
Why did we just spend four hours here if we don’t even get the luxury to review and digest and understand and really take a part what all of these people came out to say.
Audience members stated didn’t you hear what we said.
Ms. Amy Lagan stated Mrs. Nacerino is this a surprise to you.
Mrs. Nacerino stated there are other things here Amy that I would like to review.
Ms. Lagan stated I think you’re afraid to step up to the plate and vote. Don’t be afraid of this Ginny, vote.
Mrs. Nacerino stated Amy how dare you. I am not afraid to vote on anything.
Mr. Griffin stated Mr. O’Connor is not asking for a final budget vote tonight. All he is asking to do is have the opportunity to set some changes that the general public seems to be in support of. Mr. O’Connor would you like to amend your motion to close the Public Hearing or do you wish to adjourn the Public Hearing at this time.
Mr. O’Connor spoke but unable to transcribe.
Mr. Griffin stated we have to reopen it in the next three days that is what the law says.
Mr. O’Connor made a motion
that we close the Public Hearing at
Seconded by Mr. Griffin. Since the Town Clerk does not have a microphone I will do the roll call.
Respectfully submitted,
___________________________________
ANTOINETTE KOPECK, TOWN CLERK